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List:       classiccmp
Subject:    Re: russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address?
From:       Holm Tiffe <holm () freibergnet ! de>
Date:       2011-12-11 19:10:44
Message-ID: 20111211191044.GB99616 () pegasus ! freiberg-net ! de
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Yes, I've found this out in the meantime by struggeling trough some russian
docs, that from the K1806VM2 for example.
I've plugged the VM2 in such a white testboard where you can build small
electronics simply by putting wires in holes. (Don't know how they are
called in english, sorry).
I've build this non adress register from 7403s, in the russian MC1201.02
CPU is such a peace of schematic, pulling A14 and A15 Low to build the
start vector and additionally A0, A1 and A2 configurable trough switches.
There is an additional command for this processor that does this non adress
request too (0020 octal if i remember correctly), placing the complete bits
in R0. Otherways the switches would make no sense. I think the ODT startupo
Code in The K1801RE2-055 is looking for those bits and is configuring the
startup procedure accordingly (ODT or boot).

I'm trying to build an simple SBC with that processor, using an universal
card and CUL wire to connect the peaces. Im using two 28C64 as ROM,
programmend with the contents of the RE2-055 support chip that I've found
somwhere in the russian web. Currently I must make an Voltage Converter for
-12V, since the old Tzschech MHB1012 Uarts that I want to use as SLUs wants
that (compatible to AY-5-1013 and thats the same as the CDP6004, but the
CDP does'nt need the -12V, has a free Pin on this place)
RAM will consist of four peaces of W24C257 Cache RAMs. The ODT wants a
kilobyte at least in the hidden system memory area where the RE2-055
resides too..

I want to get the ODT working at first, later some IDE interface, lets
see...

BTW: The K1801VM2 is documented with 10Mhz Clock, which in real world
is 5Mhz CLCO on the processor. The Processor divides that by two.
The K1806VM2 is CMOS and has a maximum clock speed of 5Mhz which would work
out to 2,5Mhz real clock.

Kind Regards,

Holm


nierveze wrote:

> hello,the startup procedure of those processors is rather 
> sophisticated,here here is what I have found:
> first it is for the k1801BM1 and BM2:
> *at beginning if times everything is at zero....(DCLO,ACLO are low)
> *when you apply power to the processor and the clock the clock starts 
> immediatly and the processor begins to count clock states also
> *DCLO must be low for 5 ms at least ,during this time the processors clears 
> the registers,that contain random data at powerup,at the end if this period 
> internal INIT goes hight ,the processor begins to work
> *ACLO should be low for 70 ms
> *after there arre differences in the processors:
> *the 1801BM1 find the msb of the pc  from address 177716(selected by 
> SEL1),the lsb of
> the pc is filled with zeroes,this forms the starting address .Ths PSW is 
> filled with value 340.This addres is in the I/O page,maybe it can be 
> physically in a small rom,
> a register bank ,or in support circuit???
> *for the1801BM2 the msb of the pc from a non address register (maybe a 74ls 
> 244 programmed by a bank of switches  as in the case of the T11),selected 
> by SEL ,the lsb is filled by zeros ,this fixes the starting address in 
> rom,the PSW is found at this addess +2
> Here is what I have found ,my russian knowledge is maybe more
> poor as hours:-)))
> I have understood this from a file found on the site of Serguei Vakulenko 
> (vak.ru,page of projects)
> You can find here also the pdf of the 1806 ,the successor of those 
> microprocessors that use  a similar startup procedure.
> I was not able to understand where those registers are from schematics
> of BK0010 or BK0011 because they use support chips whose docs I do not have 
> .
> But the clock of those computers may be used with the timings for the
> startup procedure.
> Timing and reset circuits can be found in  'personal computers BK -0010 
> BK-0011 5/95 ' in the archives of BK
> Can you please explain more precisely what you have done???
> Thanks best regards
> Alin Nierveze
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Holm Tiffe" <holm@freibergnet.de>
> To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" 
> <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 6:20 PM
> Subject: Re: russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address?
> 
> 
> >HI Devin,
> >
> >In the meantime I've found out whats going on there, I've put that CPU on
> >a testboard and applied power and clock.
> >Nevertheless your links are very interesting, still have many threads to
> >read on those sites.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Holm
> >
> >Devin Monnens wrote:
> >
> >>Holm,
> >>
> >>I asked one of my colleagues who is working on computer research in
> >>Ukraine. He did not have a direct answer to your question, but provided
> >>these sources to check for solutions to your problems:
> >>
> >>http://forum.maxiol.com/index.php?showtopic=4599 - look here
> >>http://ramlamyammambam.livejournal.com/149983.html?format=light - ask
> >>here or maybe here:
> >>http://ru-radio-electr.livejournal.com/229706.html?thread=3609418&format=light#t3609418
> >>- I know user suvorow_ as a good specialist.
> >>
> >>-Devin Monnens
> >>
> >>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Message: 14
> >>> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 16:44:24 +0100
> >>> From: Holm Tiffe <holm@freibergnet.de>
> >>> To: cctech@classiccmp.org
> >>> Subject: russian PDP-11 like K1801BM2 CPU Startup reading w/o address?
> >>> Message-ID: <20111203154424.GA56131@pegasus.freiberg-net.de>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I want to play with a russian K1801BM2 CPU (K1801VM2).
> >>> My russian from the school is very very rusty and so I have problems to
> >>> understand what's going on with this CPU while startup.
> >>> There is some "besadresnoe tschtanie", a read from the bus w/o
> >>> sending out an address before w/o active SYNC.
> >>> It is right, that this read is building the upper 8 bits from the start
> >>> address in the rom area with Systemu Mode (Halt Mode) = 1?
> >>> Can anyone please confirm this?
> >>>
> >>> BTW: how is this external register to be done in HW?
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know if there are schematics of SBCs existing w/o special
> >>> support ICs like The K1801VP1-55 or so?
> >>>
> >>> Kind Regards and thanks in advance,
> >>>
> >>> Holm
> >>> --
> >>>      Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
> >>>     Freiberger Stra?e 42, 09600 Obersch?na, USt-Id: DE253710583
> >>>  www.tsht.de, info@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
> >>>
> >>>
> >>-- 
> >>Devin Monnens
> >>www.deserthat.com
> >>
> >>The sleep of Reason produces monsters.
> >
> >-- 
> >     Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe,
> >    Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
> > www.tsht.de, info@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741
> >

-- 
      Technik Service u. Handel Tiffe, www.tsht.de, Holm Tiffe, 
     Freiberger Straße 42, 09600 Oberschöna, USt-Id: DE253710583
  www.tsht.de, info@tsht.de, Fax +49 3731 74200, Mobil: 0172 8790 741

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